Syte Reitz

The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world…….

Browsing Posts tagged pro-choice

Diocese of Madison Prohibits Field Trips to Wisconsin Institutes for Discovery
Progressive Guide to Attacking Catholics

Wisconsin State Journal Reports

WI_Inst_Disc_Ext_NEDoug Erickson of the Wisconsin State Journal has published another reasonably balanced article on the Catholic Church in Madison (click here for 1st reasonably balanced article), and the Diocese position in the Wisconsin Institutes for Discovery’s embryonic stem cell research.  Appropriate, since the Catholic Church represents the largest religious denomination in Madison and in the United States, and 25% of Madisonians and Wisconsinites are Catholic.  The article raises an important question on the morality of embryonic stem cell research, which should be evaluated and discussed by our intellectual university town of Madison.

Intolerant Progressive Dogmatists Attack

Yet the online discussion forums following this article are completely dominated by Madison’s intolerant progressive dogmatists, who have shifted the meaning of tolerance away from accepting the right of others to hold dissenting views, to demanding that all agree with progressive dogmatists, under pain of uncivilized attack and ridicule.


Discussion Diverted

The 36 comments so far include no intellectual discussion whatsoever of the morality of stem cell research, but instead try to divert true discussion with the standard barrage of unrelated and bigoted false accusations routinely used by progressive opponents of the Catholic Church in Madison – accusations of ignoring war and poverty, ignoring the teachings of Jesus, supporting Republicans, rejecting evolution, supporting child abuse, supporting the School of the Americas, and misrepresentations of the Catholic position on contraception, of tax exemption of religious institutions, and of the old Galileo question.
Translation: when you can’t win the argument, change the subject.  Attack, even if you have to do it with lies.

How Undignified


This diversion of discussion to unrelated topics also includes the usual unintellectual name-calling aimed at Catholics- including bastions of ignorance, thugs, religious nuts, antichoicers, misogynists, anitgays, bubyull (?) thumping idiots, narrow beliefs, hypocrites, “choice” to be ignorant, “imaginary people they claim to be concerned about,” fevered minds, Imam Morlino, Catholic idiots, Vatican has done more to damage the human race, incapable of free thought, anti-intelligence, and book of fiction (the Bible).
This, coming from tolerant, intellectual Madison, and published without question by one of Wisconsin’s leading newspapers, the Wisconsin State Journal.

Translation: When you have nothing in your arsenal during a debate, use name-calling and lies.  You just might snow and distract the audience.


King of the Mountain

This barrage of comments represents an attempt to eradicate the intellectual assessment and discussion of truth, and it forbids rational dialogue.  It resembles more an adult version of the playground game “King of the Mountain,” in which pushing and shoving are the only tactics that prevail.


The Progressive Image

The idea that Madison’s intolerant progressive dogmatists view their boorish tactics as advancing debate about science, progress, or representing the high moral ground, is ironic, and very counterproductive.

Primitive name-calling and the blind misinformed ridicule of people’s religious beliefs do not lend any credibility to Madison’s progressives, but only make them appear juvenile and foolish.
Intelligent people should realize when they are shooting themselves in the foot.

The Catholic Response

Catholics and conservatives need only sit back, pray, and watch Circus Madison.
Progressive Alinsky Tactics eventually come home to roost.
Obama’s recently unraveling reputation illustrates the principle.
Join Catholics in prayer.

Related Articles:

Urban Myths About Catholics

If You’re Looking For Child Abuse, the Catholic Church is the Last Place to Look

Update on Catholic Child Abuse Scandals

Wisconsin State Journal Flunks Journalism Again! 0r What’s Wrong With Gay Marriage?

The Contrast

On Alinsky Tactics –

Clashes between Liberals and Conservatives – Washington, United Nations, Madison – Common denominator?


A Bad Samaritan?

How many unwed pregnant mothers has Annie Laurie Gaylor helped?

Just a Few of the Many Mothers and Babies Saved by CareNet

.Most recently, Gaylor condemns the good Samaritan Care Net, which does help unwed pregnant mothers– a need Gaylor herself apparently does not realize is important in our society.


Gaylor and the FFRF (Freedom From Religion Foundation) not only abandon unwed mothers, but want the government to take sides on the abortion question– THEIR side.  And Isthmus is facilitating.

Isthmus just featured Gaylor’s (and FFRF’s) opposition to a Wisconsin government website listing of the Christian pregnancy care center (Care Net) under family resources.

In the article, Isthmus quotes Gaylor extensively, yet fails to cover the opposing view.  Isthmus also facilitates Gaylor’s misportrayal of the faith based Care Net as incompetent and unsafe, without any facts to support this claim.

Bucky Badger leads Hundreds of Care Net Supporters in Walk for Life

Care Net is actually very competent, very safe, and is supported by numerous groups in Madison, including religious ones.  It is one of Madison’s proudest inter-faith endeavors, with a proud history of helping unfortunate women to take charge of rebuilding their lives.  Our family has been involved in fundraising for CareNet over the years, and participating organizations have included numerous area Christian churches (including our Catholic church), the Princeton Club, Oscar Mayer, the Mallards, Relevant Radio Madison, Bucky Badger and Oremus Catholic Rock, to name just a few.

America is split on the issue of abortion– is abortion a fundamental women’s right, or is it the murder of a human being? The truth cannot be both ways. Although Supreme Court Justices may have ruled for abortion, our society is still strongly divided, and the laws are not even consistant.  A murderer who kills a pregnant woman is legally guilty of two murders, yet if that woman were on her way to Planned Parenthood for an abortion, apparently for her, this would not constitute murder at present. continue reading…

Discussing Abortion

From a recent discussion on abortion:


You should stop calling abortion a woman’s “right.”

Half of all women disagree with you.  Half of all women are pro-life, and half of all women believe that abortion is morally wrong – Gallup Poll 2011.

Women have no more “right” to kill an inconvenient child than they have to kill an inconvenient husband, an inconvenient elder parent, or an inconvenient neighbor.

Abortion also hurts women physically, emotionally and psychologically — abortion facts.

As a woman, I have a right not to have my taxes spent on the killing of human beings and the damaging of women’s lives.

There is a new, much improved feminism which is superior to the old outdated feminism which demanded the destruction of what a woman values the most—her family.

Alan (name changed):

And the half that don’t agree with you Syte? Their voices matter less than yours? Abortion is legal whether or not you agree with it. You might want to revise your BS line about it being the same as killing a husband. Or was that “not intended to be a factual statement”? By your logic I have a right not to have my tax dollars go towards illegal foreign wars and gas subsidies. In a democracy you don’t always get what you want.


Alan —

If you want democracy, the Gallup poll shows that 51% of Americans consider abortion to be morally wrong, while 39% find it morally acceptable.  Not that public opinion can alter morality, but even on your terms, you lose.

BTW, despite your attempts to call pro-life opinions “BS”, morally, the “wrongness” of the killing of a pre-born child is not less than the killing of a husband.   A human is a human, no matter how small.


From the the exact same poll you keep posting 49% are Pro-Choice while a measly 46% are Pro-Life (or anti-choice as I like to call it). A human is a human sure but a fetus is a fetus and a zygote is a zygote and abortion is legal. Tell me again why Republicans did NOTHING while they controlled ALL of the federal government from 2001-2006? Keep fighting the good fight though if it makes you feel morally superior. It’s a fight you’ll never win. As soon as Republicans take action they lose this as a wedge issue. And that’s all this is. Republicans manipulating Christians.


Alan –

No need to get so emotional.  Perhaps YOU like to feel morally superior, but you have no grounds for throwing that accusation at me.  It is possible to disagree with people and to debate the facts without feeling morally superior or turning it into a fight.

You might like to call pro-lifers “anti-choice,” but I refrain from calling you guys “pro-murder,” and I also point out that the only reason that you are debating with me today, and the only reason other readers are reading this, is that nobody killed US when we were zygotes, fetuses, pre-borns, or whatever terminology pleases you.

So what about the “choice” of the unborn child?  The Constitution guarantees the right to “life, liberty and property.”  Abortion takes away the first, fundamental right, life, without which there can be no further rights.

Just trying to put the facts out there.  BTW, you misquoted the poll.  You might concede that within the error margin of the Gallup poll, Americans have been pretty much 50/50 on pro-life and pro-choice for the last several years.  Which, incidentally, is quite a change from the 33/56 ratio we had in 1996, fifteen years ago.  Like it or not, Americans are rapidly turning pro-life, as they find out more about abortion and its effects on women, on children and on society.

In addition, on other related questions, pro-life is actually winning today in 2011   :

  • 51% say abortion is morally wrong, while 39% say it’s morally permissible.
  • 27% say abortion should be legal under any circumstances.
  • 37% say abortion should be legal under most circumstances
  • 61% say that abortion should be legal under no or few circumstances.

Regarding majorities and abortion and why the Republicans have not reversed abortion, you should know better, unless you have not been following this issue.  There has never been a vote on the legality of abortion in the United States, either by the people, or by the legislature.  Abortion decisions, starting with Roe v. Wade, have been made by APPOINTED judges who were not elected, and who do not represent the will of the American people in any way.   When a liberal president appoints a liberal judge, we are stuck with that liberal judge’s decisions for the tenure, regardless of the will of the people or of the legislature.  Liberals have found a loophole in the Constitution, by which the will of the people can be circumvented.  Glad to have the opportunity to point that out.


Yeah that damned Liberal court we have now sure is making decisions based on the will of the people. Is that thier job? Their job is to interpret the law, or in Clarence thomas’ case sleep through the process while others interpret the law. I only pointed out the near 50/50 tie becasue you decided 51% in a poll on morality was enough to support your argument. Stating that a pre-born child is a life is also not a certainty. It’s not according to the US Constituiton or the bible so where do you get the idea that life starts at conception? What I want is for conservatives to stick to thier supposed values. Keep the government out of the uterus.


Alan, you wrote:  “Stating that a pre-born child is a life is also not a certainty…..   not according to …..the bible.”

No? Not a certainty, unless you consult moral experts—including most major religions, the Dalai Lama, the Eastern Orthodox Church, the Hindus, Islamic leaders, the Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod, Oriental Orthodoxy, Orthodox Judaism, Protestant Churches (all Fundamentalist, Pentecostal, Charismatic and other Evangelical denominations), the Southern Baptist Convention, the Roman Catholic Church, and thousands of other moral experts including over 1,000 pro-life groups that are not affiliated with religious denominations, who all oppose abortion on demand.  These moral experts are not in vehement opposition to the surgical removal of a mole, but to the termination of a human life.

Also, your claim that a pre-born child may not be a “life” IS addressed in the Bible:

“And it came to pass, that when Elizabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the INFANT leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost”- Luke 1:41

John the Baptist was a second-trimester baby at the time that he is described in the Bible as an “infant.” Christ, to whom John the Baptist was responding, was an embryo, probably a few weeks old.  Surely, the Bible’s use of the term “infant,” and the ability of persons to recognize and respond to each other, indicates the existence of “life”?

Throughout our society our laws and language acknowledge the “life” of a pre-born child:

  • Murderers get charged with TWO counts of murder when they murder pregnant women.
  • The Mayo clinic uses the word “baby” throughout their online description of “fetal” development.
  • Even YOU used the phrase “pre-born CHILD.”

A child only seems to lose human life status when he or she becomes “inconvenient,” and comes under consideration for abortion.  Then the language of dehumanization kicks in, to whitewash what is really going on, and to make it more palatable.

Steven (name changed):

Out of more than 600 laws of Moses, none comments on abortion. One Mosaic law about miscarriage

Michaelangelo’s Moses

specifically contradicts the claim that the bible is antiabortion, clearly stating that miscarriage does not involve the death of a human being. If a woman has a miscarriage as the result of a fight, the man who caused it should be fined. If the woman dies, however, the culprit must be killed:

“If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished according as the woman’s husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.”

—Ex. 21:22-25

The bible orders the death penalty for murder of a human being, but not for the expulsion of a fetus.



Your quotation actually shows that under Mosaic Law a pregnant woman was acknowledged to be carrying a CHILD, and that causing the loss of that child “will surely be punished.”

HOW do you contort that into claiming that Mosaic Law approved abortion?  Your quotation actually does the opposite of approving abortion.  It acknowledges the human life existing in the woman and specifies punishment for the destruction of that life.

You are really grasping at straws.


You fail to investigate the bible’s definition of life (breath) or its deafening silence on abortion. Moreover, the Mosaic law in Exodus 21:22-25, directly following the Ten Commandments, makes it clear that an embryo or fetus is not a human being.


If you are an American christian, you may want to check out these groups:
American Baptist Churches-USA, American Ethical Union, American Friends (Quaker) Service Committee, Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), Episcopal Church, utheran Women’s Caucus, Moravian Church in America-Northern Province, Presbyterian Church (USA), Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, Unitarian Universalist Association, United Church of Christ, United Methodist Church, United Synagogue of America, Women’s Caucus Church of the Brethren, YWCA, Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice, Catholics for Free Choice, Evangelicals for Choice


Steven –

Of course, the fact that we are having this discussion is because you were not aborted as a child.  This unequivocally proves that the developing fetus is a human being, unless I am now debating with just a huge mass of cells.

It is dangerous to interpret a “deafening silence” in your own favor.  For example, before Sept 11th, there was a “deafening silence” in the U.S. and in our homeland security policies regarding flying airplanes into buildings.  It cannot be inferred from that silence that the U.S. approved of flying airplanes into buildings.  It is more reasonable to infer that such a heinous act was never imagined to be possible before Sept 11th.

So it is equally possible, and even more probable, that the relative silence of the Bible ( don’t dismiss my Luke 1:41 example above, which the vast majority of religions interpret as evidence that a preborn child is as human as the rest of us!), that the relative silence of the Bible on abortion was due to:

  • The violent and destructive nature of abortion, which rendered it an unthinkable act previously –something no one in their right mind would consider, akin to flying airplanes into buildings.
  • The tremendous medical risks associated with abortion without the assistance of modern technology, which was not available at the time.

Regarding your listing of some Christian Churches which allow abortion– the reason for the historical proliferation of Christian Churches in recent times is the fact that people who wished to justify what was previously considered to be morally wrong split off from the first Church – starting with divorce, now including abortion.  Finding a church which approves your favorite transgression of previously accepted morality is not the best way to go, for anyone interested in what is REALLY right or really wrong.

We don’t usually make our own unprofessional conclusions before seeking a doctor, engineer, lawyer, or home inspection expert who agrees with us.  We call in the experts, and ask THEM for guidance.  So, too, with a church—if you decide for yourself whether abortion is morally right or wrong, then choose  a marginal church according to your own conclusion, then you are wasting your time.  You might as well call yourself Church and be done with it.

You are ignoring the fact that the vast majority of mainstream religions do not approve abortion.  You misquote the policies of some churches – for example, the United Methodist Church does NOT condone abortion – “The United Methodist Church upholds the sanctity of human life and is reluctant to affirm abortion as an acceptable practice” – Wikipedia on Christianity and Abortion .  Similarly, not all Presbyterian Churches allow abortion. Catholics for a Free Choice are not a church, but a miniscule minority group of dissidents within the Catholic Church, who have been excommunicated. Their membership comprises 0.001 of 1% of Catholics.  I have not checked the rest of your list, but you might be wrong on quite a few of them.

You are reading this because nobody killed you while you were an embryo.

A pro-life vote in this election is a vote for human rights.  Unborn children have the right to life, and African-American babies have the right NOT to be selectively destroyed.   77%   of  African-American pregnancies are aborted right now, and African-American babies are three times more likely to be aborted than white babies.  Since Roe v. Wade in 1973, the black population in the U.S.has been reduced by over 25 percent( ref).

A nation which cares about 4,295 combat deaths (~430 per year) in the War on Terror , and cares about 40,000 motor vehicle deaths per year, should also care about  1 Million infant deaths by abortion per year.

For those who are hard-hearted enough to advocate     1 million yearly infant deaths for the sake of a promiscuous lifestyle without consequence– consider, too, the financial repercussions.  The tax dollar contributions, as well as social security contributions that would be made by the  45 million Americans who are missing  since Roe v. Wade, would be staggering.

The argument that unaborted babies would be a burden on society (given the racial abortion statistics quoted above) borders on racism.  Generally, the birth of a baby transforms people of any color into more mature, caring and motivated individuals who become an asset to society.

Pro-abortion arguments such as rape or incest are attempts to sensationalize the issue, and to circumvent the real ethical questions.  Rape and incest actually represent only 1% of abortions, and are introduced to distract from the fundamental moral issue.  Planned Parenthood actually often helps molesters and rapists to hide their crimes, by assisting them with abortion and failing to report their crimes.

Many don’t seem to realize that each embryo IS actually a new and unique human person, as important and valuable as we all are.  Size or age does not diminish the value of any human being.

This irreplaceable value of each human life  is at the heart of moral teachings and respect for human life, and is essential for the healthy and balanced survival of human society.

The ethical questions behind pro-life issues cannot be so trivially dismissed as some attempt to do by masquerading murder under the banner of “pro-choice.”

Whose choice?  Certainly not the unborn child’s choice!

Madison, vote Pro-Life!  In this election, that means vote Republican.

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